Replay: Chickening IN with JJ Gutierrez

Sometimes a single word or phrase has the power to change the course of our lives, and “Chickening IN” is that word for JJ Gutierrez. This little twist on a familiar phrase launched JJ into a transformational journey from fear to faith. Her book, Chickening IN: From Fear to Courageous Faith, 8 Pillars of Transformation, is a practical guide to defeating fear and doubt. I spoke with JJ in February, but we especially need her message today.

Overcoming fear is a process. One step follows another, with small, sometimes imperceptible forward movement. That first step of faith, saying “God, I’m terrified,” invites Him into the conversation. As He speaks truth, we are able to take those practical steps we need to take.

How many times have you “chickened out”? Chickening IN is an invitation to a lifestyle of courage and faith.

Links

JJ Gutierrez, Courage Challenger and Mentor – chickeningin.com
Get the book (affiliate link): Chickening IN: From Fear to Courageous Faith, 8 Pillars of Transformation
Find JJ on Instagram and Facebook

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Transcript

Kay Helm: 0:01

Hey, welcome to Episode 53 of the life and mission podcast. My name is Kay Helm. And today I'm going to play an interview that we did way back in February. It first aired in March right at the end of March. And you know, just in that four or five weeks between the time we recorded this interview and the time it came out the first time, a lot changed in our world. 2020 has been quite the year. We really believe this was a God ordained moment. So I wanted to share it with you again. This is JJ Gutierrez talking about Chickening IN from Fear to Courageous Faith. Hi, JJ, thank you so much for joining us today.

JJ Gutierrez: 0:48

Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. I'm super excited.

Kay Helm: 0:52

And congratulations on the book.

JJ Gutierrez: 0:55

Thank you. Thank you. It's it's a major milestone in my life, if I can say that.

Kay Helm: 1:01

Yeah, I think so. And I know a lot of people listening are probably have a book inside of them. And so it's really encouraging when we have folks on that are that are doing it.

JJ Gutierrez: 1:14

Yes, yes, you can do it. You can be somebody like me, who's just an average person. You know, I'm not famous, or I don't have, you know, 20 different degrees. I'm just an average gal from a small town. And so a person like me can do this. You can you can write a book and you can get it published. I'm proof of that.

Kay Helm: 1:35

So so your book is very much about overcoming fear, and Chickening IN, what an awesome title. You know, we met on Facebook, and that book title just really stood out I think, and one of the conversations that was was flowing in this group that we're in and, and I started following you on Instagram, which is really inspiring. I would really encourage you if you're on Instagram to find JJ Chickening underscore IN and follow her there.

JJ Gutierrez: 2:08

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Kay Helm: 2:09

So tell us a little bit about who you are and about your book.

JJ Gutierrez: 2:14

Yeah. So my book and came to be the title Chickening IN I, I didn't know that was going to be the title. Let's just say that I knew that I wanted to write a book one day, I didn't know exactly what it would be. But it happened to be in my life that I was going through a situation where I was trying to make a really, really difficult decision that was scaring the pants off of me. And that decision was to quit my six figure income career. Now that is not an easy decision. And I think most people would feel some fear when you're making a huge decision like that, because my job was not only six figures, I had a car, company travel. I mean, I had all the perks. But the job wasn't fulfilling my life anymore. And I knew deep down that I needed to leave this job and I needed to start a new life that included homeschooling my daughter and pursuing writing. So I had at this point in time, my daughter was already being homeschooled, but I had hired a tutor teacher to teach her while I worked. And I realized that it was time. It was now time for me to become her homeschool mom and and to, you know, make this huge change. So I had tried three times to quit my job. And I scheduled a meeting with my boss and went to the meeting and I chickened out and I could not quit. I was terrified. I thought what in the world am I doing? and and all these thoughts are like so many people would would just think I'm completely have lost my mind. So I am, I was sharing this with our tutor teacher and my daughter at lunch one day and I told her. I told her tutor teacher, I I've tried this and I just keep chickening out, I just can't quit. And my daughter who was six, getting ready to turn seven at the time, turned around and just looked at me and said, "Mom, why don't you chicken in?" And the tutor teacher and I both just stopped and we looked each other we laughed. And we did I just thought that was really funny. Like why would she say that? And it became a moment what which would what I would refer to as an epiphany moment or a God moment where that word. God used to start working in my heart, like quickly in my heart. And so over the next couple days I processed what it was that she had just said. I thought my goodness this child is brilliant. And these words. God just use these words. He wove them deep into my heart to say JJ you need to do it. You've got to say stop chickening out, it is time for you to start chickening in, go and quit your job. And that is exactly what I did. Cool. And it just became, it became the platform for which I would write from that I didn't know what I didn't know that that was going to be my platform. I just knew I wanted to write. And I knew that I struggled with fear and anxiety, all of my life. This wasn't a new thing. For me. This was just a moment where God got ahold of me and used a word, I call them power words. And this is a power word that God used to grab my attention.

Kay Helm: 5:37

I love that it came from your daughter too. And just that they know that kind of taps into that faith of a child, well, just chicken in, you know,

Unknown: 5:45

exactly, it just like, like so matter of fact, so innocent, like, you know, not all of the things we attach to what we say it was just here, it was just the pureness of an innocent child. It was just it was an amazing moment.

Kay Helm: 6:00

So you took that word, chickening in. And then then you said at first it wasn't that you didn't know that it would become the platform like, what was that span of time like then, between getting that word and beginning to stand on it?

Unknown: 6:16

So standing on it, as far as quitting happened quickly, that was within three weeks, I gave notice. And after giving notice, I needed to stay for a month, because I handled some pretty large accounts, I was in a corporate business sales. And so it wasn't something that you could walk away from easily, I needed to make a good transition. So I did that. I honored, I honored that, and then I quit. And then upon quitting, I, at this time in my life, during when this was happening, I was walking every morning, I would get up before my family, and I would go on what I would call Walks With God. And so I would walk with God. And that was my prayer time and my my time to really sink in with the Lord. And that's where I think he started really taking this word, and weaving it into me and weaving it into what turned into the start of my blog. And before starting the blog, I knew that chickening in needed to have a definition, and it needed to have some sort of framework around it because it was a new word. And what did it mean?

JJ Gutierrez: 7:23

And that's what God started working in my heart. And that's where we come across what I call the eight pillars of transformation. Okay. And, and just the, the realization that when you know we Well, first of all, we all have fear, but some of us have a lifestyle of fear. So there's two, no two differences there. But I started realizing that God was showing me a new way of living a new way of a new lifestyle. And that's what the word chickening and kind of turned into is it turned into this new lifestyle, this new way of dealing with fear, learning how to live with your fear and learning how to overcome it. And so that's how the journey began. And it It started all with the blog.

Kay Helm: 8:12

Oh, awesome. So then so you begin your blog. And so I'm kind of tracing this the the journey, you know, from, yeah, that moment at the lunch, on to now you've got this book that's just come out. So you blogged and then kind of what was that process from going to blog to book like?

JJ Gutierrez: 8:29

Yeah, so blogging was a very interesting journey for me, because it was my first step into the writing world aside from writing in the corporate world, because I wrote business plans and things like that, in the corporate world

Kay Helm: 8:41

are really different. Yes.

Unknown: 8:44

Yes. So so it was it was a real huge step of faith. And it was another huge chickening and moment for me, you know, to hit that Publish button on the blog. And to put myself out there and I had a big learning curve, God had still a lot of work to do in my heart, start building my confidence, helping me to communicate the things that he was teaching me, in written format. And so I think, I think looking back, all the steps are very necessary to get me to the point of writing the book. But then there came a moment about, let's see, it was in 2018. So we are now at the beginning of 2020. So it was mid 2018, when I knew it was time, it was time to start writing the book. And so from that point, I it's actually funny because my husband and I were getting ready to move to a mountain town. And when we were looking at homes, I we were walking through a house and there was a room that was like a third bedroom that I could use as an office. And I looked at this room and I looked out the window which had an amazing view of the mountains, just a beautiful view, huge window and I looked there and I said, I'm going to write my book That's what I said. And, and so then I come back. And this teacher tutor is still involved in our life that my daughter had had, even though now I was the homeschooling mom. She's still involved. And I told her, I said, you know, we're gonna move to this house. And I walked in the room and I said, this is where I'm going to write my book. And then she said, Oh, I have somebody you need to meet. And so then she introduced me to someone who then became a writing mentor for me. And it was, it was this process of God just laying one thing before, one thing after another before my feet, like once I decided to chicken in and I decided to, I am going to do this, regardless of how much fear I am feeling. God started laying that laying things out before my feet. And so this writing mentor helped me to build the chapters. And that was a, that was just an amazing process of learning for me. And after I had three chapters done, then I submitted the book proposal. And then they believe it or not, the first publisher I sent it to was interested. So it just yeah, it was just it's just an amazing story of how God when when I finally let go of that fear of quitting my job, and I finally went forward, how my life transformed and changed over the next couple years to where I am today.

Kay Helm: 11:26

Oh, I love it. Let's talk. I think a lot of people that are listening to this podcast, I think we're all on this journey, and I'm including myself in this in that we know there's this thing that we're supposed to do, maybe we don't know, the path to getting there to getting done to done is not exactly clear. Maybe we don't know the next step. But a lot of times, I think that hardest thing is the chickening in part.

Unknown: 11:56

Yes, it is it is because chickening in, well, let me tell you about the eight pillars, and then I'm going to dive into like maybe the first step that you face when you have a fear that you're trying to overcome. And so, yeah, so the eight pillars of transformation are what I or what I provide that allow us to have some practical, manageable steps. They're also repeatable steps, to helping us to overcome fear. And the reason that I say repeatable is because there isn't a moment in time where you reach, you know, this time where you have no fear ever again, like, oh, I've arrived and I'm never going to be afraid again, that is unrealistic. And that will never happen. Because life is fluid. Situations come up, we face new things, just when maybe we think we've overcome one fear. Well, now we're in a new situation, you know, maybe it's a, you've never lost your job before. Now you've lost your job. Or maybe you you know, your husband gets a diagnosis and you've never, you've never faced that before. So there's new fears that come up. And so this chickening in is not a one and done. It's not like a 30 days quick fix type of a deal. It is a process that you can repeat over and over again. Or you can take one of these steps. Maybe you don't need all of them. Maybe you just need one, and you can implement it in the new situation that you're in.

Kay Helm: 13:27

Okay, yeah. So what are these eight, eight pillars of chickening in?

JJ Gutierrez: 13:30

Yes. So the eight pillars of chickening in are facing your fear, stepping up to the plate of your life, taking calculated risks, which is my favorite chapter. Traveling the unknown roads of life, embracing your uniqueness, pursuing your dreams, doing it afraid. And Faith is the difference maker,

Kay Helm: 13:53

I love that you have like you have steps in there that a lot of times we don't really think about. And maybe that's sometimes why we struggle so much with the fear. And like I know, you said we don't need necessarily always all the steps. But there are times when we do need some of these steps because we hear the "do it afraid." I think that's probably the most common advice that we get on facing our fears. But like the calculated risks, and you know, those are those are huge, where there's there are things you can control and things you can't control. Yes. And and managing some of the things that you can. That's huge. So,

JJ Gutierrez: 14:39

yeah, and so the doing it afraid is number seven on purpose, because there are so many things we can do first, to reduce our fear or reduce our anxiety before we get to the point where we say, Well, okay, I've done everything that I can. Now I just need to do it afraid Now I just need to go forward. Because you may not eliminate all fear that, you know, you might be setting yourself up for a trap. If you think that all fear will go away, but it is towards the end of the process, because there are things we can do in the meantime, you know, in the in between, to help us to, you know, to get through the fear, like process through it, I'm a processor, so I have to process everything.

Kay Helm: 15:29

What are some of the things we can do that? What are some of that? As items?

JJ Gutierrez: 15:32

Yeah, so all I you know, I'll just start with facing your fear chapter one with the the first pillar because it is something that is kind of the foundational beginning point. And it's the point at which all of us can find ourselves at. And so if I can get, if I can help your listeners, just get past that first step, that would be great. I think that would that would hopefully help somebody that's listening. And so what you know, what we want to acknowledge is that, first off, there's two kinds of fear, there is a healthy fear, and then there is a self limiting fear. And so healthy fear is something we always want to listen to. And that's the fear that tells us Don't touch the burning stove or run across the street, those fears are founded on something that can actually happen, that there's proof that it can happen, it's probably happened before or you've heard about it happening before. And so the, you know, the, the thought that it is possible, you could get hit by a car, if you run across the street, a busy street, that is a reality that is a that's a truth. And so we are not talking about healthy fear in this book about overcoming healthy fear, because we don't want to overcome that. That would be dangerous. So the fear that we are talking about is self limiting fear. And that is fear that is not based on evidence or evidence that any harm will happen. But it's produced in our thoughts. And it's founded and made up on false and, or exaggerated possible outcomes. It's the fear that grows in our mind. That is the kind of fear it's in our imaginations, and it's probably based on our insecurities, as well. And so that is the fear that we want to overcome. That's the fear, we want to challenge and that we want to change. And so like when I was quitting my job, I had all these fears of, I'm not going to be good enough anymore, I'm not going to be significant. I'm not going to be providing income. So I'm not going to be valuable. I'm not going to have any income, I might end up homeless. I mean, like my mind went to all of these places. Yeah, you know, that were that self limiting fear that was keeping me trapped in the job that I knew I needed to leave. Because it was actually becoming toxic for me. I knew I needed to leave it. Yeah.

Kay Helm: 17:56

Because I think we do that a lot. Just because it's it feels safer somehow, even if it really isn't, to hang on to the thing that's familiar.

JJ Gutierrez: 18:05

Yes, yeah. It is so true. And that's a lot of times I found myself trapped in fear is just because it's what I knew. And for some reason, I don't know why, but it feels safe. You feel safe to stay in the fear. Because you know, you know what the outcome is going to be? You're not going to go forward, right? You're not going to face that thing. So I guess you have the comfortability of knowing you're going to stay where you're at, even if it's where you don't want to be.

Kay Helm: 18:36

Yeah, yeah, I think we all do that. It's like, there's different areas of our lives where we'll allow that to happen and other areas where we won't allow that to happen. It's kind of interesting. And I think, to some extent, I really think we all do that at some point with some some part of our lives.

JJ Gutierrez: 18:51

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. And it's interesting, because what I've learned is that we actually have a relationship with fear. So I, I like to think of fear as something separate from myself as a separate, almost like a separate person or a separate voice, something that that you actually dialogue inside yourself with, is having an internal conversation. And that's the first step to really facing our fear is looking at the internal conversation we're having with ourselves, doesn't even have to be with anybody else. This could, this could exist 100% inside your mind. And that's where most of my fear has resided is in my mind. And so that's where I would I'd like to challenge us to do is let's look at what kind of things does fear tell us? I've learned five things that fear has told me and and healthier has restricted my life. And then how can be changed that conversation instead of having a conversation with fear. We want to turn that conversation to having a conversation with God. And that is the key. That's the key differentiator.

Kay Helm: 19:59

Okay, so far. These are the five convert internal conversations.

JJ Gutierrez: 20:03

Yeah, so what I'll do is I'll, you will tell you what all five are. And I'll give you some of the phrases that are clues that that is what fear is telling you, if you hear these things being said to you, and then this might be the part of fear that you're struggling with, or the part of what fear is telling you. So fear will often tell us to run. And when it tells us to run, it'll look like this. It can say, Get away fast, it's not safe to risk, you might fail. And your failure will bring shame, what will others think of you go now, before you embarrass yourself, you don't have what it takes to do this. So run while you still can. So it's that feeling of like, gosh, I can't do this, I'm going to completely go the opposite way, I'm going to run away from this thing that I want to do, or that I want to face. And what's interesting about fear is that it knows exactly what to tell you and it's very personal, in your fear knows exactly what buttons to push for you.

Kay Helm: 21:13

So true.

JJ Gutierrez: 21:15

Yes, so and the next one is a lie. And fear can tell us to lie, it will look like this, the internal voice may say, don't let anyone see the real you. The truth isn't good enough. So lie to make yourself look better. Avoid rejection by being dishonest about your likes, dislikes, faith or true self. And how often I've been caught in that situation where I didn't think I was good enough. And so I didn't want to be truthful about what I really thought or what I really felt. Because I was afraid.

Kay Helm: 21:52

And that can be so subtle to.

JJ Gutierrez: 21:55

Yes, it can it can. And you know if you think about Sarah, when you know when God was telling her she was going to have a baby. And she laughed. I remember this part in the Bible. It's in Genesis 1815. And she giggled to herself, so it was not out loud. It was to herself. But God heard her. And God asked Abraham Why did Sarah laugh. And Sarah she was so afraid that she denied that she laughed, that she denied that. And it makes me think about you know, myself and and how easy it is for me to do that as well. You just, you know you want to deny but you can't hide it from God. God knows. That's right knows what we're really thinking. And anyway, so then the next one is panic or worry. So fear will fear will cause us to panic. And it can sound like this, your thoughts will go to the worst case scenario. And they will run frantically through your mind with things like what if I lose my job? What if I can't get another job? What if we lose everything? What if the test result is cancer? What if it's terminal? What if I'm not strong enough to go through this? What if I fail? It's the what this that will take over when you start heading towards panic or worry. And it will over exaggerate the negative possibilities and undervalue anything that's positive that can come out of it

Unknown: 23:32

in a run off.

Kay Helm: 23:35

I mean, worry can go way down a road that when you look back at it, you go Wait, what how did I believe that? You know? Yes, it goes some wild places?

JJ Gutierrez: 23:48

It does. It really does. And and it's all in our mind. It's all in our thoughts. Like there isn't another person sitting there cheering you on with the worrisome thoughts. It's happening inside of you. So you know, what we want to do is we want to focus on God and not focus on all our fear filled anticipations Or what if,

Kay Helm: 24:13

right?

Unknown: 24:15

And then number four is give up. A lot of times fear will just tell us to give up. And it'll sound like this. I've tried, but I haven't seen any fruit. I'm tired, and I'm worn out. Maybe it's time to call it quits. What's the point of just continuing? It's a waste of time and energy. was God really involved in this plan? It's too hard. It's time to turn back. And so what I've noticed about giving up is usually giving up happens more like when you're in the middle of something that you've already taken a step out. And now you're wondering, why did I do this and there's this all consuming fear and this conversation going on inside. If yourself telling yourself to give up that this was not what you were supposed to do, you made a mistake. Turn back to saying. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And you know how often that happens. And it even happened to me after I quit my job. I started thinking, oh my goodness, did I just make a huge mistake? Do I need to go back to my boss? And like, say, Sorry, can I get my job back? You know, and that that's, that's just fear, being a bully and trying to get us to go back to, to kind of put us back in our place. Mm hmm. You know, and then the last one is, do nothing. And, you know, we sometimes you know, getting started, it's like you You had mentioned, I think earlier, like getting started. Sometimes it's just, it's the hardest thing to do. So hardest thing to take that first step. And so when we hear the voice of do nothing, it sounds like why try? is healing worth your pain? That what you have to go through to get to the other side? Is it just too big to confront, you'd be better off leaving it alone and moving on. Fear wants to immobilize us, it wants us to do nothing. Because the risk is just too much to just remain is what fear would like us to do, or to let somebody else do it? You know, oh, well, so and so so and so's more qualified, are there better? So I'm not going to, but really, you're copping out because of your own fear. You're deferring to someone else.

Kay Helm: 26:39

Yeah. And I think sometimes, you know, I've seen that. Well seen it, I'm going to come clean here. I've done that, because I haven't felt qualified. You know, you look at somebody else, and you say, oh, they're more qualified, you know, and we hear a lot these days about imposter syndrome.

JJ Gutierrez: 26:56

Yes, yes. And

Kay Helm: 26:58

so that one seems to really agree with imposter syndrome. And well, a few of these different levels. But yeah, but that one very much speaks to me in that area.

JJ Gutierrez: 27:08

Yes, yes. And that's so I address a little bit of that in in the chapter called embracing your uniqueness. And so we'll talk in that chapter, we talk a little bit about how God has made you uniquely, and embracing the person that he's made you to be and going forward with who he's called you to be not who he's called someone else to be. And I've once heard, it said that there are always people more qualified to do what you're doing, that maybe not willing or not, that's not their desire. Or maybe that's not who God is calling to do that. Because I am sure there are people far more qualified to write this book than than myself. But this is what God's called me to do. And so this is sort of the talent, if you think about the talents that he gives to each of us, this is what he's given to me that I need to invest back into him. So

Kay Helm: 28:04

one of the earlier episodes of this podcast, we talked about calling, and one of the things that Os Guinness says in his book, The Call, is that we are responsible not for our calling, we're responsible for our response to God. Yes, then we think if I have a calling, well, then there must be a caller. So I'm not necessarily responsible for fulfilling that call. I am responsible for responding to the call, yes,

JJ Gutierrez: 28:38

yes, doing your part of what God is asking you to do, the desire that he put in your heart. And I think the hardest part living in the culture that we live in is that is that we want to know that there's going to be the results that we think culturally are acceptable. And so being able to let go of that, and follow the call and know that the results are 100%. God's not ours. I think that that can help us to overcome the fear of not wanting to do it, not wanting to go forward.

Kay Helm: 29:10

Do you think sometimes we're too outcomes focused?

Unknown: 29:14

Absolutely. That's the world we live in. I mean, if you think about, you know, just Facebook and Instagram themselves, you know, how many followers do you have, and, and that type of thing. And then our world celebrates success in a much different way, then maybe God celebrates success. And so we have to, we have to be able to step away from the worldview and really put ourselves under God's hand and what it is that he says is successful.

Kay Helm: 29:44

And that's very, very different than I think, you know, we returned to social media, because it is such an easy example of kind of the scoreboard effect you have or we watch what's being measured, but who determines And what's going to get measured? And is what we're measuring the thing that we really are men aren't supposed to be measured by, you know, is does that that may measure one aspect of something. But is it really the thing that we're supposed to be focused on?

JJ Gutierrez: 30:18

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, that is something that I think all of us have to face this day, this day and age. So we all have to come to terms with it. But I think what's really important just when it comes to these conversations with fear, is learning how to change that conversation. And that's what I want to leave with, you know, with your listeners today is that there is hope for these conversations. And the hope isn't in, isn't in entertaining, the fearful conversations between you and the fear, it is inviting God into that conversation. And it's allowing God to speak truth into the fear that you are having. And, you know, 99% of the time, all of that fear is lies. It is lies either from our enemy, or from our own, you know, insecurities, or maybe from our upbringing, like, for me, a lot of the fears that I've had is from growing up in a very dysfunctional family, and not knowing my true identity, I have these lies that I don't believe I am good enough, or I'm capable, or I am worthy. And so a lot of my fearful conversations stem from that. And so going to God, and learning my identity is critical. Mm, yeah.

Unknown: 31:40

To be there all of the time. And so what I'd like to share with you is just some of the ways in which talking to God can change that. In I in the book, I talk about three different people in the Bible, where we can learn from their conversations, and one of them is Jeremiah. And so I'll just quickly share with you Jeremiah. So in Jeremiah one, we can see that Jeremiah is having a conversation with God, about God's call on his life, which is what we were just talking about. And Jeremiah, his call was to be a spokesperson to the world. But Jeremiah was afraid, and he was concerned. But the key here is that even in his fear and his concern, he continued to dialogue with God, he didn't stop talking to God. And I think often when we're afraid, we will stop talking to God, because we think either it's wrong, or it's inappropriate, or we just get over consumed and we forget. And I think that that's really important for us right there. We can stop for a moment and and sit on that for a moment that even in his in his fearfulness. He didn't stop talking to God. And I think for me on maybe for, for some of your listeners, too, that that is a that's the stopping point. Like once you start feeling afraid, you stop talking to God. And you know, either we get consumed by our fear, we get overwhelmed by it. Or we think that it's inappropriate to continue talking to God about it as if we should not have any fear in order to be able to talk to God about things, which is so untrue, that is just a complete lie from the enemy, that you know that we should not talk to God in our fearful moments. And so and so through that we can see that Jeremiah, he continues to talk to God. And he says, I can't speak for you. I'm too young. That's in Jeremiah one six, that was through coming clean with God about his fear, that God encouraged and strengthened Jeremiah, with the promise that he would be with Jeremiah, and that he would take care of him. And so rather than listening to our fear, God told Jeremiah to rise up, and that God would be there with him every step of the way. So if you can see how there was this interaction going on in these few verses where Jeremiah was afraid, but he continued to talk to God, and in that conversation, God was able to encourage him and strengthen him to overcome that fear. Yes. And that's, you know, that's the that's really what we want to do with our conversations with our fears. We want to bring God into that conversation. We want to have that conversation with him. And in doing that, we have the ability to decrease our fear as Christ is increasing in us. Our fear starts decreasing. And what you know, I kind of liken this to think about different people in your life, you can probably categorize people as being a person who has a positive influence on your life, a person that has a negative influence on your life or somebody that's just kind of neutral. They don't really think impact you either way, what we want to do is when we start to face our fear, we want to neutralize fear. We don't want fear to have that negative impact on us, we want to neutralize it. When we start to increase our faith by having conversations with God, that's what happens to our fear is it goes from being negative, it starts to get neutralized. And as we start having that conversation with God, then our faith starts to grow. And it starts impacting us on the positive side of doing this reversal effect. And so, you know, what I can tell you is, as you start to say, fear tells you to run or fully, faith in God tells you to stay, face your fear, and know that God is with you. or fear, when it tells you to lie or cheat. God says, always stand in truth. When fear tells you to panic or worry. Faith in God tells you to remain calm and steadfast in God's promises. When fear tells you to do nothing, faith in God says, move forward, pray and take action. When fear tells you to cower or give up, faith in God says, rise up in the strength of the Lord and refuse to quit. Mm hmm. So see how when we bring God into the conversation, how bringing him in can change the movement of our feet, from staying stuck in fear to moving forward, it can literally cause our feet to move forward so that we can make decisions that will lead us to start overcoming that fear.

Kay Helm: 36:42

Yeah, so if flips helps us to flip this, the script, and there's a passage in Exodus where God talks to the Israelites about how he's going to bring them into the promised land, but he's, and he starts by saying, I'll fight your battles. Yeah. And then by the end of the chapter, he's saying, and then you will defeat your enemies. And process, but it starts where I'm maybe I'm not strong enough to face my fear alone. So I take it to God. I mean, not that we ever, you know, totally go, okay, God, I don't need you anymore. It's not that we come to that point. But that, that that's part of what the faith is that I understand. I'm not strong enough for this.

Unknown: 37:29

Yes, exactly. And it's that part. And part of the faith is just being able to have that conversation with God. I don't know how many times I've been stuck in fear. And I never talked to God about it. I just kept and what happens is it creates a spiral effect or turn or a tornado effect. Yes. And it begins spiraling and the fear just keeps going and going and going. And all the things that you know about God or to be true about his promises are nowhere in sight. Because the fear is spiraled. So, you know, so quickly, and it's grown so big, that you can't see beyond it. And so it's bringing faith is being able to say, God, I am terrified, I am terrified to do this, I am terrified to quit my job. I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know the end of the story. I don't know if I will end up homeless or not, because now I don't have this income anymore. You know, it's taking, it's taking all of that and bringing it before the Lord, so that he can now interject into the conversation truth to and that that truth is what can give you the strength to take the practical steps that you need to do. So if it's the practical step, like for me was making the appointment with my boss and actually quitting. That was the practical step for me. But for somebody else, it might be the practical step of needing to forgive somebody and making the phone call to them and saying, will you meet me for lunch, it might be the practical step of overcoming your past by realizing you need to go to counseling. And so you need to pick up that phone and you need to call that counselor, you've been afraid to do that. Because you don't want to be labeled as somebody in counseling or whatever the fear is, maybe you don't even want to talk about the past. So you don't want to call the counselor, but it's being able to have the faith to add God into the conversation so that you can have the strength to make that phone call to the counselor and say can I come see you? That's how it all works together to get you to the point where now you are in motion, and you are facing that fear.

Kay Helm: 39:44

One little bit at a time one step.

JJ Gutierrez: 39:46

Yes. Yes, it is all one step at a time I am. I I just don't believe that fear for me has ever been a leap. It's never been a I'm going to jump Over all of this and be on the other side, it has always been one tiny step after another building upon each other. And then before you know it, I can look back and say, Oh my goodness, that fear that was holding me hostage. I'm not way over here. But it didn't happen overnight. It was little by little.

Kay Helm: 40:20

And when you're in the midst of it, I think too, we don't even see the change happening until we've taken so many steps that we're it's kind of like when you're in the water and the ocean and the current has, you know, you look out straight to the beach and you're like, Wait, where's my family? Oh, they're down. That way. I didn't realize I've been Yeah, this far along the beach by the currents, but, but then you realize how far you've gone.

JJ Gutierrez: 40:45

Exactly, exactly. And then that's what happens on the reverse side with fear. It's funny. So we want it we wouldn't be going the other way we would be facing our fear we wouldn't be moving forward and that really is what chickening in is. Because if you think of how many times in your life, you may have said I chickened out or, you know, no way. I can't do that. I'm too much of a chicken. And that really is what chickening in is, is it's the opposite. It's going towards that thing. That thing that you really want to do or need to do that is scaring you to death. So instead of saying I'm chickening out, you start saying I'm chickening in. And for some reason, there is power in that word when you say it. And I just couldn't help but share that word with everyone because it's not a word just for me. It's not a word that my daughter just said that was for me, it is a word that everyone can use to to sort of, do a mind shift. Do a quick mind shift. Oh, chicken in like, Yes,

Kay Helm: 41:50

I can do this. There is a verse in Psalm eight. That says from the lips of children and infants, you have ordained praise because of your enemies to silence the foe and the avenger.

JJ Gutierrez: 42:06

That is so good. And so appropriate. guys know

Kay Helm: 42:14

that word chickening in from your daughter. Yeah,

Unknown: 42:19

Yes, it has. God has used my daughter. And you know what, you know, what I would say about that is it would have been really easy to dismiss that as just something silly that a child said. And I could I could have not paid attention to what she was saying, and not what God was really saying through her. And I'm so thankful that that didn't happen. And I'm so thankful that I was walking with God during that time. And I was really seeking Him because because it is from the mouth of a child, that he has forgotten all of this to come to be and changed my life transformed me literally transformed my life, I am living a completely different life. Now, I would not say I still don't have a fear, because that's not true. That's unrealistic. But I am a different person and I am on a way different path than the life that I have been living.

Kay Helm: 43:19

That's beautiful. And you're and you're bringing others with you as well. And that word from your daughter is resonating and will resonate more with this book, and all the people that are going to get this message. It's beautiful. Thank you.

Unknown: 43:32

Thank you. Thank

JJ Gutierrez: 43:33

you, Kay, it's been so much fun to be on this call with you and and to talk with you.

Kay Helm: 43:40

Where can people find you? Where can people get the book

JJ Gutierrez: 43:43

so chickening in I am the only website that exists with that name. So you can go to you know, chickening, in.com, Facebook and Instagram. I'm the only person with a name or anything like that. As well as the book is available on Amazon and Barnes and Nobles. An audio, it'll be on Audible soon. I don't think it's going to be available. You know, right now, but it'll it's coming soon.

Kay Helm: 44:10

Okay, great. So we'll keep an eye out for that. And as usual, you know, we have the links to JJ's site, and to get the book from the show notes. Yes. Thank

JJ Gutierrez: 44:22

you so much.

Kay Helm: 44:23

Thank you for being with us today. JJ. I and I really hope listeners that you take this to heart. What are you going to check in in to let us know we you know, what's your Yon? Because we're in this together?

JJ Gutierrez: 44:39

Yes, absolutely.

Kay Helm: 44:41

Hey, thanks for listening to the Life and Mission Podcast. The show notes are at our website life and mission calm. And I'd really appreciate it if you would leave a review especially on Apple podcast that helps other people to find the show. This week, I want to say a special thank you to Mom with lots of laundry who left this review on Apple podcasts. She said Kate is a great interviewer with engaging and inspiring guests. You'll for sure be encouraged listening to this podcast. Hey, I hope that's true today. Be encouraged. Be inspired. Chicken IN, and find your voice. Tell your story. Change the world.